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RayDunakin

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Since: Jul 11, 2003
Posts: 10



(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:06 pm
Post subject: Mouse for 8100 Mac?
Archived from groups: comp>sys>mac>hardware>misc (more info?)

Do the Mac mice that are currently available work on older Macs too, or only on
new ones? I deperately need a new mouse for my 8100! I'm using a Mouse Systems
MacPoint II, and it is the worst piece of crap excuse for a mouse that I have
ever seen! Please, can somebody recommend a good replacement??

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Pat Janes1

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Since: Oct 16, 2003
Posts: 41



(Msg. 2) Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Mouse for 8100 Mac? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article ,
raydunakin.RemoveThis@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote:

 > Do the Mac mice that are currently available work on older Macs too, or only
 > on
 > new ones? I deperately need a new mouse for my 8100! I'm using a Mouse
 > Systems
 > MacPoint II, and it is the worst piece of crap excuse for a mouse that I have
 > ever seen! Please, can somebody recommend a good replacement?


I believe Kensington still make one model that has will work with both
ADB and USB. ADB is Apple Desktop Bus, that's the 4-pin port on your
computer that you use to connect a mouse and keyboard.

There are also lots of Apple mice on ebay. Search for ADB mouse and
you'll turn up dozens.

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whom

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Since: Sep 11, 2003
Posts: 3



(Msg. 3) Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 10:43 pm
Post subject: Re: Mouse for 8100 Mac? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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RayDunakin wrote:

 > Do the Mac mice that are currently available work on older Macs too, or
 > only on new ones? I deperately need a new mouse for my 8100! I'm using a
 > Mouse Systems MacPoint II, and it is the worst piece of crap excuse for a
 > mouse that I have ever seen! Please, can somebody recommend a good
 > replacement??

Mice (and keyboards for that matter) for Macs that you find at the retailers
nowadays are USB. If you want to use one of them, you'll need USB on your
8100, which basically means that you'll have to add USB with a card. If you
choose that path be aware: (1) Finding an NuBus USB 1.1 could be a
challenge (if I correctly recollect, it was still NuBus on 8100). (2) Keep
the ADB mouse and keyboard around (so that you're not stuck if you have to
do something before the USB drivers load). Other solution: roam the online
or brick and mortars retailers to find an ADB model that suits you.
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Gregory Weston

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Since: Jul 06, 2003
Posts: 769



(Msg. 4) Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 12:37 am
Post subject: Re: Mouse for 8100 Mac? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article ,
whom <whom RemoveThis @ever.org> wrote:

 > RayDunakin wrote:
 >
  > > Do the Mac mice that are currently available work on older Macs too, or
  > > only on new ones? I deperately need a new mouse for my 8100! I'm using a
  > > Mouse Systems MacPoint II, and it is the worst piece of crap excuse for a
  > > mouse that I have ever seen! Please, can somebody recommend a good
  > > replacement??
 >
 > Mice (and keyboards for that matter) for Macs that you find at the retailers
 > nowadays are USB. If you want to use one of them, you'll need USB on your
 > 8100, which basically means that you'll have to add USB with a card. If you
 > choose that path be aware: (1) Finding an NuBus USB 1.1 could be a
 > challenge (if I correctly recollect, it was still NuBus on 8100).

You correctly recollect, but describing finding a NuBus USB card as a
challenge is being more than a little optimistic. I don't think I've yet
seen a USB host that doesn't actually rely on certain truths inherent in
being attached to a PCI bus to function correctly.

G
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whom

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Since: Sep 11, 2003
Posts: 3



(Msg. 5) Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:57 am
Post subject: Re: Mouse for 8100 Mac? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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Gregory Weston wrote:

 > You correctly recollect, but describing finding a NuBus USB card as a
 > challenge is being more than a little optimistic. I don't think I've yet
 > seen a USB host that doesn't actually rely on certain truths inherent in
 > being attached to a PCI bus to function correctly.
 >
 > G

Damned, you're right, it seems more than challenging... :-(

Has anybody tried that thing: <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.geethree.com/p_ADB.html" target="_blank">http://www.geethree.com/p_ADB.html</a> ?
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Bichela

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Since: Oct 25, 2003
Posts: 20



(Msg. 6) Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 4:32 am
Post subject: Re: Mouse for 8100 Mac? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article , Gregory Weston wrote:
 > You correctly recollect, but describing finding a NuBus USB card as a
 > challenge is being more than a little optimistic. I don't think I've yet
 > seen a USB host that doesn't actually rely on certain truths inherent in
 > being attached to a PCI bus to function correctly.
  If anyone does find a USB Nu-bus card. My Performa 6115cd
could use one.
  BTW I need a AAUI-15 to standard AUI cable for a transciever.
Anyone hae such a beastie? I got the DB-15 transciever to 10-base2
(which my lan uses.) but I need a cable to connect it to my Mac's
AAUI-15 port.
  How hard is it to make the cable? where do I find the teeny
AAUI-15 plug ends? and the pin-outs? or even carving up my Mac's
insides to put a standard AUI female socket for the transciever I
have?

--
   From the Desk of the Sysop of:
Planet Maca's Opus, a Free open BBS system.
Telephone 860-738-7176 300-33.6kbps <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="Telnet://pinkrose.pinkrose.net.dhis.org" target="_blank">Telnet://pinkrose.pinkrose.net.dhis.org</a>
    The New Cnews maintainer
    B'ichela
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Gregory Weston

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Since: Jul 06, 2003
Posts: 769



(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 5:28 am
Post subject: Re: Mouse for 8100 Mac? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article ,
B'ichela <mdalene.TakeThisOut@pinkrose.net.dhis.org> wrote:


 > Weston wrote:
  > > You correctly recollect, but describing finding a NuBus USB card as a
  > > challenge is being more than a little optimistic. I don't think I've yet
  > > seen a USB host that doesn't actually rely on certain truths inherent in
  > > being attached to a PCI bus to function correctly.
  > If anyone does find a USB Nu-bus card. My Performa 6115cd
 > could use one.
  > BTW I need a AAUI-15 to standard AUI cable for a transciever.
 > Anyone hae such a beastie? I got the DB-15 transciever to 10-base2
 > (which my lan uses.) but I need a cable to connect it to my Mac's
 > AAUI-15 port.
  > How hard is it to make the cable? where do I find the teeny
 > AAUI-15 plug ends? and the pin-outs? or even carving up my Mac's
 > insides to put a standard AUI female socket for the transciever I
 > have?


It is likely easier and cheaper just to get an AAUI<->10b2 pigtail. I
don't have any anymore, but they run < US$10 on eBay last time I looked.
Asante makes/made good ones.

G
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Bichela

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Since: Oct 25, 2003
Posts: 20



(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:31 am
Post subject: Re: Mouse for 8100 Mac? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article , Gregory Weston wrote:
 > It is likely easier and cheaper just to get an AAUI<->10b2 pigtail. I
 > don't have any anymore, but they run < US$10 on eBay last time I looked.
 > Asante makes/made good ones.
  I rarely Ebay. so if you know of a good dealer on the web for
a new one of these or the cable I need to use the transciever I have
now I would appreciate it.


--
   From the Desk of the Sysop of:
Planet Maca's Opus, a Free open BBS system.
Telephone 860-738-7176 300-33.6kbps <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="Telnet://pinkrose.pinkrose.net.dhis.org" target="_blank">Telnet://pinkrose.pinkrose.net.dhis.org</a>
    The New Cnews maintainer
    B'ichela
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David C.

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Since: Oct 11, 2003
Posts: 890



(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 8:07 am
Post subject: Re: Mouse for 8100 Mac? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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B'ichela writes:
 >
  > BTW I need a AAUI-15 to standard AUI cable for a transciever.
 > Anyone hae such a beastie? I got the DB-15 transciever to 10-base2
 > (which my lan uses.) but I need a cable to connect it to my Mac's
 > AAUI-15 port.

AAUI-AUI is not an easy adapter to get. They were made, but they are
large, bulky, and require an external power supply. (The AUI spec
has to provide a significant amount of current, in order to support
thick-Ether tranceivers.)

AAUI-thinnet (10Base2) should be easier to find. I found one for $5
at a local computer flear market. Some web searches should find one.

Here's the first hit from a Google search:
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.smalldog.com/product/37076/ss" target="_blank">http://www.smalldog.com/product/37076/ss</a>

They are listing one for $9.

  > How hard is it to make the cable? where do I find the teeny
 > AAUI-15 plug ends? and the pin-outs? or even carving up my Mac's
 > insides to put a standard AUI female socket for the transciever I
 > have?

Don't even bother. This is not a simple cable. The amount of
engineering effort needed to design and build a reliable one from
scratch is nowhere near the $9 cost of an AAUI-10Base2 tranceiver.

-- David
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Bichela

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Since: Oct 25, 2003
Posts: 20



(Msg. 10) Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 9:32 am
Post subject: Re: Mouse for 8100 Mac? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article , David C. wrote:
 > AAUI-AUI is not an easy adapter to get. They were made, but they are
 > large, bulky, and require an external power supply. (The AUI spec
 > has to provide a significant amount of current, in order to support
 > thick-Ether tranceivers.)
Ok, but still for the sake of my collection I still would like to find
this mystic cable.
 > AAUI-thinnet (10Base2) should be easier to find. I found one for $5
 > Here's the first hit from a Google search:
<font color=purple> > <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.smalldog.com/product/37076/ss</font" target="_blank">http://www.smalldog.com/product/37076/ss</font</a>>
 >
 > They are listing one for $9.
  Looks good. I will give them a jingle. BTW Do you think they
would have the Simms to bring my 6115cd beastie up to at least 70MB of
ram? I will call them in the beginning of November. They are in
Massachussets so thats not too far from Connecticut.
 > Don't even bother. This is not a simple cable. The amount of
 > engineering effort needed to design and build a reliable one from
 > scratch is nowhere near the $9 cost of an AAUI-10Base2 tranceiver.
  Probally not. but then again.. Some of us like a little
challenge now and then. Other than the Power consumption of the
transciever issue. is the wiring relatively simple? Would Newark
Electronics have the Machintosh AAUI plug
  I got several Wall warts that can produce the 12VDC at 300MA
that my transciever uses. (it states the need on the Transciver
itself.)
  If anyone has the plans to build the cable... I will fire up
my pokers and give it a go. Got nothing to really do this Winter.
    B'ichela


the transciever.
 >
 > -- David


--
   From the Desk of the Sysop of:
Planet Maca's Opus, a Free open BBS system.
Telephone 860-738-7176 300-33.6kbps <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="Telnet://pinkrose.pinkrose.net.dhis.org" target="_blank">Telnet://pinkrose.pinkrose.net.dhis.org</a>
    The New Cnews maintainer
    B'ichela
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Barbarossa

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Since: Sep 23, 2003
Posts: 62



(Msg. 11) Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Mouse for 8100 Mac? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
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In article
,
whom <whom DeleteThis @ever.org> wrote:

 > Gregory Weston wrote:
 >
  > > You correctly recollect, but describing finding a NuBus USB card as a
  > > challenge is being more than a little optimistic. I don't think I've yet
  > > seen a USB host that doesn't actually rely on certain truths inherent in
  > > being attached to a PCI bus to function correctly.
  > >
  > > G
 >
 > Damned, you're right, it seems more than challenging... :-(
 >
 > Has anybody tried that thing: <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.geethree.com/p_ADB.html" target="_blank">http://www.geethree.com/p_ADB.html</a> ?

Yes, and it certainly doesn't work with a Kensington 4-button
ADB 'ThinkingMouse.'

--
__________B__a__r__b__a__r__o__s__s__a__________
Wayne B. Hewitt Encinitas, CA whewitt DeleteThis @ucsd.edu
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Barbarossa

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Since: Sep 23, 2003
Posts: 62



(Msg. 12) Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2003 2:48 pm
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In article ,
raydunakin.TakeThisOut@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote:

 > Do the Mac mice that are currently available work on older
 > Macs too, or only on new ones? I deperately need a new mouse
 > for my 8100!

I have Kensington 4-button ADB 'ThinkingMice' on all my old
computers. They're the best time saver since learning how to
type. I got most of them off of eBay - I use 3, and have 3
spares. When I get my G5, I will use it with a Griffin 'iMate
(not from eBay.)

These old mice were indestructable, and the only problem was
that they were not optical. I have no idea why Kensington didn't
just make an optical USB version. Of course, later versions (or
similar) have scroll wheels, but this puts the buttons so far
apart that it is very difficult to "chord" them with one finger.

Nothing available today is as good as the original. If you
keep searching eBay for: Kensington ADB you may find one,
possibly unused in the box, for a very good price. The latest
'MouseWorks' software for Classic or X may be downloaded.

--
__________B__a__r__b__a__r__o__s__s__a__________
Wayne B. Hewitt Encinitas, CA whewitt.TakeThisOut@ucsd.edu
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David C.

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Since: Oct 11, 2003
Posts: 890



(Msg. 13) Posted: Sun Oct 26, 2003 7:56 pm
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B'ichela writes:
 > David C. wrote:
  >>
  >> AAUI-AUI is not an easy adapter to get. They were made, but they
  >> are large, bulky, and require an external power supply. (The AUI
  >> spec has to provide a significant amount of current, in order to
  >> support thick-Ether tranceivers.)
 >
 > Ok, but still for the sake of my collection I still would like to
 > find this mystic cable.

The official Apple adapter is not a cable but a large brick with
several cables coming off of it (inluding an AC power cable).
Unfortunately, I couldn't find any web pages with pictures.

I've seen it several years in a row at the Trenton Computer Festival's
flea market (http://www.tcf-nj.org/). The guy doesn't seem to be able
to find anyone who wants to buy it off of him :-) If you want to wait
until TCF-2004 (no dates announced on the web site yet) and travel to
NJ, there's a good chance that the guy will be there again, with a
shelf full of old Apple stuff, including the AUI adapter.

  >> AAUI-thinnet (10Base2) should be easier to find. I found one for $5
  >> Here's the first hit from a Google search:
<font color=green>  >> <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.smalldog.com/product/37076/ss</font" target="_blank">http://www.smalldog.com/product/37076/ss</font</a>>
  >>
  >> They are listing one for $9.
 >
  > Looks good. I will give them a jingle. BTW Do you think they
 > would have the Simms to bring my 6115cd beastie up to at least 70MB
 > of ram? I will call them in the beginning of November. They are in
 > Massachussets so thats not too far from Connecticut.

Don't know. You'd have to ask. I know that people on these
newsgroups have recommended SmallDog Electronics in the past, so it's
worth a try.

According to Apple:
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112279" target="_blank">http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=112279</a>

a 6115CD has two 72-pin SIMM sockets. Memory must be installed in
matched pairs. Each SIMM should be fast page mode, 80ns or faster.
4, 8, 16 or 32M each. (For a total memory configuration of 16, 24,
40, or 72M).

According to MacTracker, the 6100 series can also accept 64M SIMMs
(for a total of 136M), but this is not an Apple-supported
configuration.

This memory is a generic type. Once upon a time, it was very
popular, but is now hard to find, since everybody is using variations
on SDRAM for memory.

Crucial.com (Micron's web store) only sells FPM in 32M sizes for $46
each. This is very expensive.

On pricewatch.com (a meta-index of small stores), 32M SIMMs go for
between $8 and $18 each. 64M SIMMs for between $16 and $39 each. If
you buy from a PriceWatch vendor, I recommend you research a vendor
before placing an order - not all of them are reputable.

Doing a Google search on the keywords "Macintosh", "6115CD" and
"memory" produced several hndred hits, many of which are stores that
will sell you the memory you need at a wide variety of prices. As
with PriceWatch, research any store you buy from - not everybody with
a web site is reputable.

People selling used SIMMs at flea markets and on eBay might also be a
good source. 32M SIMMs often go for $1 or less. (I remember one guy
at TCF two years ago who was selling random 72 pin SIMMs for $5 a
handfull.)

  >> Don't even bother. This is not a simple cable. The amount of
  >> engineering effort needed to design and build a reliable one from
  >> scratch is nowhere near the $9 cost of an AAUI-10Base2 tranceiver.
 >
  > Probally not. but then again.. Some of us like a little
 > challenge now and then. Other than the Power consumption of the
 > transciever issue. is the wiring relatively simple? Would Newark
 > Electronics have the Machintosh AAUI plug
  > I got several Wall warts that can produce the 12VDC at 300MA
 > that my transciever uses. (it states the need on the Transciver
 > itself.)
  > If anyone has the plans to build the cable... I will fire up
 > my pokers and give it a go. Got nothing to really do this Winter.

This Apple knowledgebase article may help:
<a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=9980" target="_blank">http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=9980</a>

It describes what you need to do to make this kind of cable. It says
that tbe biggest problem will be the 12VDC power supply, which AAUI
doesn't provide. You'll need an external power supply for that.

So I may have spoken a bit too soon - it probably won't be a lot of
engineering effort, but it won't be trivially simple either.

-- David
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